efnet servers being ddos'd - personal thoughts

[vx0]

After the 150th time being the victim of vile, prepubescent and immature harangues by such kiddies when trying to "use their voice", many opers lose their desire to converse with these people. The little hooligans know exactly why the opers are busting them. They don't need to be told.

- vx0

Kiddes do dumb things, the oper punishes them.

You hit it right on the head. IRCops don't use their voice (read my post above for the definition of online voice) therefor kiddies are punished at will without usually even knowing what they did. If you spent the time talking to them I'm sure they'd understand what is wrong and most likely just stop (and get bored and move on).

[a]

hi

[Hardy]

hi

So nice that you had to dig up a two year old post to say hi...

[rudegyal]

wow this website still exists

[stevoo]

I mean, heck go to check Quakenet, THAT is a lame oper attitude. EFnet still is OK from this point of view.

thanks buddy. we aim to please.

and by the way, IRC is -NOT-, I repeat -NOT-, a democracy. oh, and life isn't fair. wipe your ass and deal with it.

-- stevoo, admin efnet.port80.se & port80.se.quakenet.org

[sealie]

First of all, this is a very interesting thread and it suprises me to see how some opers feel about this.

Here are my thoughts:

I've been on IRC for quite a while, long enough to have gotten a very deep look into the view of an average luser AND oper. The thing is, most people tend to think that most opers are self-important pricks with no consern what so ever about the normal luser, which is not true at all. Most opers cares about their users and would love to help them out. And most of the opers out there, aren't pricks like most people tend to think they are. The thing is, most lusers approach opers with an attitude, because they expect they will be treated otherwise. People should try approaching an oper like a chick, be polite and not the "dude, message me if you got time and is not too busy with being ignorant and killing people". That is a good start. Now...

When it comes to packeting and targeting servers instead of opers/users, I think this has a rather simple explaination. First of all, ddosing in the early 90's was not "distributed" as the latest DoS techniques. Some kiddie rooted an university box and used the root to teardrop/syn off a Win95/98 user because the common and average luser was on a 56kbps Bell Dialup. Because it was a VERY obvious and easy target. To avoid losing the root, they stuck to the average technology wise stupid luser instead of risking their root to a rather more professional server staff.
Today, its much more easy to retrieve ddos bot software - and not to mention much more easy to distribute it and launch massive attacks. Also, the bandwidth difference between a luser and an IRC server is much smaller today as most lusers are located on ~100mbps connections. Which is the average IRC EFnet server connection. It would be much easier to drop a 56k from a 10Mbps connection than dropping a 100Mbps from a 100Mbps. Also, it wouldn't matter if the sponsoring company of the IRC server reported 200 of the offensive drones, as these nets often are ~10,000 clients. Do you get my idea?

In other words, today it doesn't really matter for the average kiddie which servercenter they drop. They have about the same connectivity - and both are "easy" to drop with an average sized DDoS net. A BNC located at some shellco and the average EFnet server. Who cares? Also, if you look at the History section in "Docs" on efnet.org, you may see the increase of DoS the latest years. And the attacks started as soon as the modern DDoS technique was available.
<quote> Oct 97 - "smurf.c" - multi-broadcast ICMP attack posted to Bugtraq Denial of Service attacks on EFnet servers hit an all-time high</quote>
And we all agree that this was when "it all started"?

My conclusion, I would rather think that the increased DDoS the last years are related to easier accessibility to DDoS code, and more efficent DDoS code (spreading) and not too much about the local IRC oper.

I hope you got my point.

Si

Vidar S

[Hardy]

My conclusion, I would rather think that the increased DDoS the last years are related to easier accessibility to DDoS code, and more efficent DDoS code (spreading) and not too much about the local IRC oper.

I hope you got my point.

Si

Vidar S

Yea, i agree on the technical aspect of why its more dos now then earlier

But that doesnt hide the fact that some servers takes alot more packets then others, also when there is not any logical reason to it like usercount etc. And over the years i have noticed that its often the servers which have opers who just loves to dive into a channel fight to "fix it" that gets beaten more then the ones who has opers that just performs their server duties.

[bradhig]

I swear ircops are lazy because when kiddies ddos severs they ban whole isps and hurt mostly inocient users. Banned from server says we can't let you on because your a ddoser when you are not..

[JustHavinFun]

I voted yes. An IRCop tried to kline me because of a private p2p discussion (it was non threatening). I got one up on her in a debate and she didn't like it They come across as being very critical, seem to be looking for a reason to kill, and IRC seems to be all they have.


But then, most of them are depicted as 40 year olds with no life, no career and no prospects.

[orphan843]

Well whether the channel is being used to do the attack or whether they are being used to bounce the attack they should be shut down.

These attacks have become more frequent and I have had to deal with seven this week.

Traced them all back to #lail on efnet. Do not know if they are a stooge or whether they are the players but they should be removed and banned from efnet.

Just my humble opinion as a user of Dalnet and efnet for some 12 years.

[evil]

Ircops don't need a reason to do what they are doing these days. If you have an oper friend they will do just about anything for you. If you don't like a channel just ask your oper friend to jupe it. If someone is using your nick just ask your oper friend to kill it for you. Oh yeah, and if you piss off an oper they will surely harrass you by juping channels, killing people with (Spam) in the kill message as a cover. It's been this way for a very long time and nothing has changed except some of the nicks. Why more attacks today? People have found ways to do the attacks without getting caught. Also there's more targets today. I was here on July 11th 2001 when efnet almost died as a result of too many opers flexing on people. Of course there wasn't as many targets then and I think some of them got caught, but not all of them. I don't condone any type of attack on anybodys equipment but I can understand why they do it. What defense do these people have with a percentage of corrupt opers? Sure you might say "let the admin know" or some bureaucratic crap that never works. I could write a book on the abuse I've seen over years by ircops, I have even made attempts to follow suggestions given to me as to how to resolve it and it has "never" worked. But hey, I'm still on efnet. Light up your torches I can take it.

[3597]

heh.

can't you compare irc servers to channels?

i don't see anyone on here bitching about how some channel ops abuse their powers by kicking / banning them.

same concept.

or even better for you slow people. if i came into your home, started talking badly to your girlfriend/boyfriend/wife/husband/kids, making a mess. throwing stuff all around your house and just being a plain old asshole i'm pretty damn sure you'd wanna /kline me from your house.

get it?

granted, i've seen some opers randomly do shit that was uncalled for, but its their server. only time i get mad is when they would gline my whole network so my other customers couldn't get on because of 1 retarded customer. but usually that is resolved by showing oper/admin of server logs of the retarded customer being removed.

anyhow, hold thread. get over it. you are in their house. abide by their rules or don't... but realize they can do whatever they want.

[evil]

I think you missed the original thread. There was no whining, it is a discussion on why people are packeting the servers. I gave my 2 cents, move on.

[3597]

I think you missed the original thread. There was no whining, it is a discussion on why people are packeting the servers. I gave my 2 cents, move on.

you can give your 2 cents but i can't eh? i wasn't even speaking towards you anyhow. i was just speaking in general how alot of people complain about opers abusing their o:lines but nobody complains about chans ops abusing their +o status.

i was giving my 2 cents, which i believe is allowed considering this is a public forum.

[drsr051]

I don't really know what causes a ddos attack, but I do know it won't take much to give someone a reason to do it. Do a channel list search on efnet and check out #gigenet. These morons from this ISP even admit in the topic to allowing ddos attacks from their servers.

#gigenet 15 Get a shell account on Gigenet. We allow ddos fr

My bnc is being ddos'ed as I type this. This channel needs to be shut down. There is the proof that an ISP is allowing their servers to be used for ddos attacks on efnet.